New Zimbabwe constitution might have to be negotiated: Gutu

Clemence Manyukwe, Political Editor
In this conversation, our Political Editor, Clemence Manyukwe (CM) speaks to Deputy Justice and Legal Affairs Minister and Movement for Democratic Change (MDC-T) Senator for Chisipite, Obert Gutu (OG), on the government’s legislative agenda and his working relationship with Patrick Chinamasa (the Justice Minister) as well as the chaotic constitutional outreach process. Herein the excerpts: CM: What have been your experiences since joining government in June this year?

OG: I was appointed Deputy Minister of Justice and Legal Affairs on June 22 2010 and was duly sworn in on June 24 2010. Before that, I had been a practising lawyer all my life since leaving law school in the mid 1980s. I was the senior and founding partner at Gutu & Chikowero Attorneys-at-Law; with chambers in Harare and Chivhu.

Coming from a private law practice background, joining government was an interesting proposition. I was used to running a very busy law practice and essentially, I am the kind of person who wants to be kept busy all the time. In fact, my family members frequently complain that I am a workaholic. But then, that’s who I am! I make sure that I keep myself busy at the ministry and since I am dealing with legal issues most of the time, I don’t feel that I am lost.

The law has been my life and the law is my first passion. I have now settled down well in my new assignment and I am confident that I will be equal to the task.
CM: Initially, you were left out of the inclusive government; why do you think you were picked up for inclusion during the reshuffle by Prime Minister Morgan Tsvangirai?

OG: That question is better answered by my bosses. I am an honest and obedient servant of the people; I am a servant of my party and above all I respect my leadership; whichever way you look at it, I am a party functionary and the party decides when, where and how to deploy me.

CM: What is your working relationship like with Minister Chinamasa?

OG: I enjoy peaceful co-existence with Minister Chinamasa. He minds his own business and I also mind mine. As and when it is necessary, we meet and co-operate in whatever we are supposed to do in order to effectively discharge our ministry’s core mandates. We are not enemies and we need not be enemies. After all, both of us are honourable members of the legal profession. I trust we have mutual respect and that’s the way it should be.

CM: Is it true that sometimes permanent secretaries and ZANU-PF ministers collude to withdraw some vital information from ministers or deputy ministers from the MDC formations?

OG: It is very difficult to tell. You know, sometimes perception becomes reality. I am on a national assignment as the Deputy Minister of Justice and Legal Affairs and I am guided by national interests in whatever I do at the ministry.

I am not on a mission to antagonise anyone and so far, I haven’t clashed with my minister and/ or the permanent secretary. I have told both gentlemen that I am at the ministry to discharge my national responsibilities and to date, I will be lying if I say that I am being sidelined.
CM: The legislative agenda; where are we?

OG: There is a packed legislative agenda as you know. It’s a pity that Parliament has hardly sat this year mainly because of the constitution outreach programme. There are plus or minus 40 bills that are being worked upon and right now, these bills are at various stages.

The Attorney-General’s Office Bill, the Electoral Amendment Bill and the Zimbabwe Human Rights Commission Bill will be tabled when Parliament resumes sitting, most probably in October this year.

As a human rights defender myself, I am pleased to note that the democratisation agenda is firmly on course. We are coming out of a deeply polarised political environment, but I perceive myself as a new African; a new African who wants to debunk the myth of Afro-pessimism. I am pretty confident that very soon we will graduate from the politics of machetes and knobkerries to the politics of tolerance, engagement and development. This is what Zimbabwe needs and indeed, this is what all patriotic citizens should strive to achieve.

CM: What are some of the laws in the pipeline and when are they likely to come to Parliament?

OG: I think my answer to the last question has already answered the present question. I trust that when Parliament resumes sitting soon, it shall be kept very busy because various bills will definitely be introduced in the august House. Believe you me, Zimbabwe is on an irreversible democratisation trajectory. Things might be happening slowly, but at least they are happening! Half a loaf is definitely better than nothing.

CM: Police Commissioner-General Augustine Chihuri and some members of the force have opposed some clauses suggested for incorporation into our electoral laws. How is the ministry going to manoeuvre?

OG: The Commissioner-General of Police is a citizen of Zimbabwe. As such, he has a democratic right to raise whatever issues he would like to raise; that are pertinent to his office. Whether his views are progressive or not is neither here nor there. Suffice to state that every stakeholder is at liberty to also raise any views and/ or opinions that they might have regarding the proposed amendments to the Electoral Act.
The Ministry is not necessarily obliged to incorporate any views that any citizen might suggest. We adopt a holistic view; in the national interest and certainly not in a narrow and partisan perspective. After all, Zimbabwe is bigger than you and me; indeed, bigger than anybody else for that matter.

CM: Last, there have been disturbances at constitution consultative meetings. As a lawyer, do you think at the end of the process, an ideal document for Zimbabweans will come out?

OG: I have been keenly following events as they unfolded during the COPAC outreach programme. Of course, the programme has been dogged by various problems mostly financial and, in some cases, organisational. Some outreach consultations have been disrupted in both rural and urban areas.

Honestly speaking, I am unable to endorse the outreach programme as having been truly people-driven. My own personal suspicion is that the new constitution, if at all we are going to have one, is going to be negotiated; much in the same manner as the negotiations for the Global Political Agreement.

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